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History 104A, September 16:Beware of Dorian Greeks!
Well, I've been trying to decide exactly where to begin with our
new topic. Of course we do have a group meeting today, if I recall
correctly, finishing up on Mesopotamia. I would prefer I think to run
the group meeting at the end as I usually do and just start with the
Greeks or at least the Minoans within some element of it. And I'm not
sure at what level to begin with them, or if I should start or deal
with the Trojan war. It is a Friday and so maybe it's -- and on a
Friday, the last day of the week, maybe we should play some games with
history.
Around 2000 BCE there were movements of people which we refer to
as Indo-Europeans. They all look like Brad Pitt, settled in various
areas of Greece -- Mycenae, perhaps the Hittites, and certainly Troy
which was located here. And they came down as roving bands with a
change custom by our value system at least. They had a system of
mentoring children so that they would grow up to have the same strong
traits of their mentor. And basically what it was, at about the age
of 12 or 13, the parents would pay a prominent male to rape their boy.
Q What?
THE PROFESSOR: I heard the what. I told you it was a little
different. Parents would actually hire a mentor, pay him, and then
that mentor would steal the boy, have a phony marriage, if you will,
and inject his strength and power into the boy in a sexual fashion, is
that the way to place it. And then after that marriage, that mentor
would continue to educate and work with the boy as if he were an
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apprentice, although, after a certain point in time, the sex stopped.
Translation, it's a form of homosexuality that we would call
ritualized. It was not what we would call a permanent or homosexual
act as we would see it. You know, it was like going into the navy.
Thank you. At least somebody was listening.
Q Why would they -- what would they -- like raping him have to do
anything with it?
THE PROFESSOR: Well, you're putting your fluids inside.
Q So that means -- okay.
THE PROFESSOR: So by placing your fluids, you have created a
connection. As I say, it doesn't have to make sense to us. It was a
custom brought down in some fashion throughout this region. I guess
jumping ahead or whatever you want the deal with, the fact is, because
of some of these traditions or custom, we often identify with the
Greeks as homosexuals, we see them in that fashion, not identify with
them. I don't know what language that you use, but when we were in
college or younger, when people would say the Greek way, it usually
meant anal sex. Is that a term used here, the Greek way?
A Not to my knowledge.
THE PROFESSOR: Well, so that element of the society produced, as
I said, the Brad Pits of -- no. I'm picking on Brad because of Troy.
Q So you think that I did that to -- you know the film like his
cousin -- you think that he did that to him?
THE PROFESSOR: Let's put it this way. It was not an uncommon
tradition and it's hard to say. Candidly, homosexuality as itself in
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an act on its own was actually outlawed in Athens, but the ritual
structure wasn't. And Socrates, we do know, had a sexual relationship
for a while with an individual sometimes was considered a traitor in
Athens by the name of Alcibiades. The reason I'm identifying this is
that it's difficult for me as it is for many of you to deal with
different cultures, different values, different systems.
Q It was made obvious in the movie Alexander with Collin Feral.
THE PROFESSOR: I haven't seen it yet.
A I walked out of the movie theater.
A I walked out too.
THE PROFESSOR: Really, that bad?
A We watched like half of it.
THE PROFESSOR: Well, the original Alexander -- who was the -- it
wasn't Richard Burton. I actually picked it up on the DVD a while
back just to prepare myself for the other Alexander, and that wasn't
extremely great either, not bad, but it was considered a classic. I
will watch the new one just to walk out on it, I think.
A Don't waste your time trying to watch it.
THE PROFESSOR: It was certainly a part of life and culture in
Greece. And once again, it's hard not to make judgments; but again,
we should not historically try to -- just accept that this is
different in a sense than what we would comprehend or understand or
deal it. And sometimes, of course, it's used in films for shock
affect because it is so contrary to our culture. Apparently in the
original film, Spartacus, there were a number of homosexual scenes
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that were cut out when the film was put on the market. Spartacus was
made in the 50s or 60s; however, when they put it out on DVD,
considering the changes in our times, the scenes with Tony Curtis that
were restored to the film.
In any case, the group that came down into Greece were known as
the Dorians. As I indicated, they were basically lighter haired, blue
eyed people coming into the area. And in Greece from time to time you
will see very light people, being blonde, blue eyed, Scandinavian
looking, and people wondered where did they come from. In reality,
they may not have been descendants from the Dorians who, by the way,
settled in the southern part of Greece which is the area we are going
to talk about called Mycenae. And that's the area off Agamemnon and
Menelaus in the southern region. But we also know that the Norsemen,
the Vikings, moved with their ships -- marauding, robbing, stealing --
into this area as well, settling around 1000 AD in southern Italy as
well as in Greece. It's often hard to judge where the various racial
mixtures and types stem from historically.
The culture of the Mediterranean region at around 2000 was fairly
advanced most of what we know comes from myth, mythology. Many of the
famous myths that we have heard or read about dealt with the Trojan
war, Troy. In the middle of the 19th century, a very wealthy
German -- he made money in the oil fields of Russia. He made money
actually in the gold fields of California. A man by the name of
Heinrich Schliemann had an absolutely fascination with the Iliad and
the Odyssey. He memorized every word, every comma of both books. He
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believed it was real. And when his wife died, he decided that he
wanted to marry a Greek woman. And at the age of 47 a marriage was
arranged with a young Greek woman who came from a wealthy family who
had lost much of their money. And so he paid for the marriage. It
was arranged. She was very well educated, spoke many languages, and
she was 16 -- 47/16 -- it's not quite as bad as Jerry Lee Lewis. He
was 27 and she was 14. Nobody know who Jerry Lee Lewis is? He's
famous for besides the 14-year-old marriage. He comes from Kentucky,
you know. Wrote great balls of fire. In any case, with his wife
Schliemann, decided to spend the rest of his life looking for his
beloved Troy and proving that it really excited. And studying the
Iliad he began to find various references to a place based on
description or whatever that was located here in Turkey, believing
they were a form of Greeks here, and entrance into the Black Sea which
of course was very important trading routes for the Greeks. It was of
course the area of the Argonaut and the movements of some of the Greek
myths as well. I'm talking too slowly here so substitute I'm
stuttering.
The area that he began to dig in with permission from the Turkish
government, all the items that he found, if he found any, were to be
turned over to the Turks. And they would have a person on site to be
sure that he didn't rip things off. In any case, he dug through the
area he believed was to be Troy and he came across an extremely
wealthy city. He was not really trained as an archaeologist and
probably destroyed a lot of stuff to find the wealthy city which today
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most archaeologists believe was a much later Troy. There are, I
think, nine levels that they went through. However, he found a lot of
wealth and some of it he siphoned off. He wanted to create a museum
in Greece. By the way, he named his three children with his new wife
by names of people within the Iliad and the Odyssey. I don't remember
which names they were. That love and passion was there. The Turks
found out that he had been ripping off the site and they kicked him
out of the country. He was very disappointed because the Greeks at
that time, at around the 1870s, really had little interest in creating
a museum. And so the stuff that he had taken from Troy, he brought
back to Munich, and they created a museum for the Trojan stuff there.
Meanwhile, he decided to do some and excavations at the homeland
with Achilles and Agamemnon came from. There he came across a very
very impressive civilization that seemed to have existed around the
same time as Troy and named after the first city he found Mycenae.
And found some large walls, gates, burial beehives where burials took,
and gold and silver and lots of wealth, which again, much of it taken
to Germany.
The year of the Trojan war is generally given at around 1200.
The year of the Trojan war, the story of the Trojan war is supposed to
have lasted 10 years. So somewhere around 1190, or if it started at
1190, it ended around 1180. Somebody put a hole in the condoms. I'm
in bad shape today. I still don't know why they named a condom
Trojan. Was it because of the Trojan horse or beware of Greeks
bearing gifts. I told you it's Friday, so we have to think of
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something to think about over the weekend. That would be an
interesting term paper. In any case, as we know the Greeks hit and
the City of Troy, took in their offering, and out popped the Greeks
destroying Troy from within burning most of it to the ground, despite
the warnings that -- I'm losing the name here -- warnings of Greeks
bearing gifts. Of course coming out of that area, not on Odysseus and
his travels through the Mediterranean, but another individual, became
quite famous for the Trojan war who also disappeared his name was
Aeneas within limitations on the spelling again.
Aeneas is supposed to have been the founder of the Roman
civilization. The story on Aeneas is that he left Troy, escaped,
travelled the Mediterranean like Odysseus, and wound up stopping off
at a city known as Carthage. The story of Aeneas has been exaggerated
as propaganda during the period of Augustus and the period of the
Roman empire by the famous Roman writer Vergil in Aeneid. At
Carthage, the queen of Carthage was a woman named Dido, which I think
in Spanish means finger. In any case, they had a slight affair going.
And whether she rejected him or he decided to leave, the story from
the Roman point of view was that he left. Now, we need to understand
something historically in the comic books wherever. Superheros can't
get messed up when they're men with women. Superman was faster than a
speeding bullet for a particular reason. You can get it over with,
but you have to get out there because women are going to cut your hair
like they did with Sampson and destroy your power and your strength.
I'm just giving some advice to the guys if they want to be superheros.
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If they want to be girly men -- that's another story. It really has
come down through history that the heroes, the men, could not be
engaged with women. And so they went off, Hercules with 40 children,
all boys of course because he was a real man, et cetera. We'll find
those stories, some tales constantly repeating themselves. So the
real man, Aeneas, left Dido and that, for the Romans, explained the
conflict between Carthage and Rome and the three Punic wars that were
fought for control of the Mediterranean because the Carthaginians
hated the Romans based on Aeneas leaving their beloved queen.
The interesting part about Carthage is that it was a Phoenician
port and city that later became one of the most powerful trading
ports. The founding day for Carthage is generally in the 800s BCE.
However, if you recall, I mentioned the Trojan war is traditionally
given somewhere around 1200. Apparently, Aeneas travelled the
Mediterranean for about 400 years. But again, if Velikovsky is
correct, that not only is there not a dark age in Greece, but then
Phoenicia, Carthage, the Trojan war would have been around 800 which
of course has always fascinated me. There's no way to prove that
stuff, but it's fascinating.
In any case, Aeneas left and went to the Italian community where
he had an opportunity to visit Hades, the underworld. And there he
saw the future, the future of these powerful Roman legions and the
founding of the great City of Rome by two of his descendants, Romulus
and Remus. I think we know those names and we'll talk a little bit
more about the movie later. That is that story coming out of there.
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Another myth that seems to give us information about more of this
area is a myth about a man, a hero, a superhero, again rejecting a
woman so it doesn't tear down his greatness by the name of Theseus.
Schliemann's work inspired a number of other archaeologists to start
digging with Greece and Turkey. However, another myth that fascinated
archaeology at around 1900 was an archaeologist named Sir Arthur
Evans. And he decided that the stories of King Minos and the island
of Crete and the Mentor must have had some value and validity. And he
began digging on Crete looking for the palace of Minos where the
Mentor, which was half man and half bull, existed. And he found the
palace. He found the City of Knossos, the capitol. There again we
found tremendous wealth, tremendous city, but more so a city that was
not walled, indicated perhaps that the island was pretty well secure,
a city that had been destroyed by fire. And with the diggings, it had
been identified and again you'll see different dates, somewhere from
1400 to 1200 BCE, that island civilization disappeared founded
somewhere around 2000, also, the island of Theria or the lost island
of Atlantis destroyed by a volcano. The only problem is that we know
that Atlantis is out on the different galaxies and the Star Gate has
taken us to where it is. Atlantis was supposed to be beyond the
pillars of Hercules which is the straits of Gibraltar. So this
concept doesn't make a lot of sense.
The myths that interested Sir Arthur Evans, the myths of King
Minos, the myths of Theseus, will have to wait until Monday because we
do have a group meeting today based on life and death in Egypt and
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Mesopotamia. Again, if you're not prepared, please do write it up and
don't screw it up like some of you did by not writing up the other one
and lose 10 points.
Let me place on the table here the grading sheets. Choose a
chairperson to pick them up. If you go outside, I'll follow you out
and listen and not get into your groups.
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